{"topic":{"id":4654,"title":"我们对“精神”是否强调过度","slug":"topic","userId":543,"categoryId":11,"createdAt":"2023-08-02 00:15:51.510723","bumpedAt":"2023-08-10 01:40:38.584688","views":524,"postsCount":10,"highestPostNumber":11,"likeCount":8,"closed":false,"pinned":false,"pinnedGlobally":false,"pinnedAt":null,"pinnedUntil":null,"isBanner":false,"excerpt":"北岛说过“当经济分配出现凹陷时道德高地就会隆起。”今天看到王霜的采访也是如此。我们训练的比别人刻苦也没有好成绩谈到女足，女排便是“精神”，强调苦行僧般的刻苦训练，忽略科学的训练体系和足球环境。身边统计学来看，就没几个踢球的，女生更是凤毛麟角。进入职业梯队训练也总有“需要给教练塞钱”的传闻。职业来看，如她所说我们缺乏科学的训练。之前女足的辉煌我更倾向于是认为其他国家女足没有男足一样的体系，因此形成了类似乒羽跳水的“职业队打业余队”的格局…","deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"isPrivate":false,"isMembersOnly":false,"category":{"id":11,"name":"深入交流","slug":"distilled","color":"c01c28"},"author":{"id":543,"username":"Valencia","name":"Valencia","avatarUrl":null},"realAuthor":{"id":543,"username":"Valencia","name":"Valencia","avatarUrl":null},"tags":[]},"posts":[{"id":8368,"postNumber":1,"raw":"北岛说过“当经济分配出现凹陷时道德高地就会隆起。”今天看到王霜的采访也是如此。我们训练的比别人刻苦也没有好成绩\n谈到女足，女排便是“精神”，强调苦行僧般的刻苦训练，忽略科学的训练体系和足球环境。身边统计学来看，就没几个踢球的，女生更是凤毛麟角。进入职业梯队训练也总有“需要给教练塞钱”的传闻。职业来看，如她所说我们缺乏科学的训练。之前女足的辉煌我更倾向于是认为其他国家女足没有男足一样的体系，因此形成了类似乒羽跳水的“职业队打业余队”的格局。但近几年随着国外女性权利的提升，女足欧冠渐渐成体系。这套格局趋于瓦解。反观一些欧洲豪门，例如曼城，皇马，虽然有十四冠之心之类的宣传，但是对“精神”的强调远远低于我国。提到皇马，我们更容易想到大罗，C 罗，齐达内，莫德里奇等一大票巨星想到欧冠三连，9248，而非“皇马精神”。\n也不止于足球，很多方面我们都过于强调精神而不鼓励甚至刻意抑制理性讨论。甚至用“精神”的强调压制理性的事实。小的比如那些很努力却很菜的同学，做了很漂亮的笔记却不去思考。大的比如言必称无私奋献却丝毫不敢讨论分配制度。（再深的说了我要被封号了。）每天刷十遍二十遍小学口算题是学不会微积分的。","cooked":"

北岛说过“当经济分配出现凹陷时道德高地就会隆起。”今天看到王霜的采访也是如此。我们训练的比别人刻苦也没有好成绩
\n谈到女足，女排便是“精神”，强调苦行僧般的刻苦训练，忽略科学的训练体系和足球环境。身边统计学来看，就没几个踢球的，女生更是凤毛麟角。进入职业梯队训练也总有“需要给教练塞钱”的传闻。职业来看，如她所说我们缺乏科学的训练。之前女足的辉煌我更倾向于是认为其他国家女足没有男足一样的体系，因此形成了类似乒羽跳水的“职业队打业余队”的格局。但近几年随着国外女性权利的提升，女足欧冠渐渐成体系。这套格局趋于瓦解。反观一些欧洲豪门，例如曼城，皇马，虽然有十四冠之心之类的宣传，但是对“精神”的强调远远低于我国。提到皇马，我们更容易想到大罗，C 罗，齐达内，莫德里奇等一大票巨星想到欧冠三连，9248，而非“皇马精神”。
\n也不止于足球，很多方面我们都过于强调精神而不鼓励甚至刻意抑制理性讨论。甚至用“精神”的强调压制理性的事实。小的比如那些很努力却很菜的同学，做了很漂亮的笔记却不去思考。大的比如言必称无私奋献却丝毫不敢讨论分配制度。（再深的说了我要被封号了。）每天刷十遍二十遍小学口算题是学不会微积分的。

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 00:15:51.661691","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 16:32:16.893615","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":4,"wordCount":487,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"👍️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1077,"username":"Ru1Z2e","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":4,"users":[{"id":246,"username":"xun","name":"王蓉静"},{"id":650,"username":"AdvisorUploadBot1","name":"AdvisorUploadBot1"},{"id":747,"username":"Albert","name":"Albert"},{"id":2913,"username":"kobayashi","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":3,"publicVersion":3,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":543,"username":"Valencia","name":"Valencia","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8372,"postNumber":2,"raw":"你是否在找：西迁精神","cooked":"

你是否在找：西迁精神

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 01:18:30.802396","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 01:18:30.802396","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":10,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"🤗️","count":2,"users":[{"id":31,"username":"TsuinoSora","name":null},{"id":385,"username":"Kamille","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"😅️","count":1,"users":[{"id":650,"username":"AdvisorUploadBot1","name":"AdvisorUploadBot1"}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"😆️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1211,"username":"WENIWEE","name":"我完全同意"}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":928,"username":"1598476300","name":"YazawaP"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":973,"username":"pama","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/ae/4a/ae4a066aa6ab0425b7c1c70bbfb44cfa5965ce8fe387692de7911b377fd8bc54.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8373,"postNumber":3,"raw":"令人感叹","cooked":"

令人感叹

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 01:43:08.384451","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 01:43:08.384451","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":4,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":31,"username":"TsuinoSora","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/77/06/7706643ba6d3ee1ec9d0070db0ad8a22bed8651fa8eb829cf44df4d20fa24b3b.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8378,"postNumber":4,"raw":"我是有这个想法但是不敢说。借着足球这个不敏感的话题聊聊","cooked":"

我是有这个想法但是不敢说。借着足球这个不敏感的话题聊聊

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 03:34:48.834792","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 03:34:48.834792","replyToPostNumber":2,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":27,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":543,"username":"Valencia","name":"Valencia","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8406,"postNumber":5,"raw":"某种意义上我们说不定是西迁精神的受益者\n如果没西迁，我们可能都来不到交大 (\n\n强调精神说白了就是物质待遇什么的没跟上呗，这些跟上了就不用天天唠叨什么精神了，大家都会用脚投票的\n\n当然，也不是说所有人都是物质的，肯定有精神很崇高的人，支援建设。不过这种人估计也不会多把精神吧啦吧啦的扯在嘴上吧，由纯粹的行动而生的感染力足以使人理解他们的真诚，这种人来强调精神我觉得是由内而发的呼唤而不是忽悠，未尝不可🤔","cooked":"

某种意义上我们说不定是西迁精神的受益者
\n如果没西迁，我们可能都来不到交大 (

强调精神说白了就是物质待遇什么的没跟上呗，这些跟上了就不用天天唠叨什么精神了，大家都会用脚投票的

当然，也不是说所有人都是物质的，肯定有精神很崇高的人，支援建设。不过这种人估计也不会多把精神吧啦吧啦的扯在嘴上吧，由纯粹的行动而生的感染力足以使人理解他们的真诚，这种人来强调精神我觉得是由内而发的呼唤而不是忽悠，未尝不可🤔

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 14:00:10.658986","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 14:00:10.658986","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":195,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":778,"username":"yyrlyk","name":"GGB"},{"id":928,"username":"1598476300","name":"YazawaP"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":259,"username":"ReturnDream","name":"保密","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8412,"postNumber":6,"raw":"随便摘抄的收藏夹里的话\n\n我们身边有太多人，从懂事时起就不断地欺骗自己，然后欺骗别人，接着欺骗自己的孩子，一代接一代地骗下去。无论意不意识到不对路，他们都觉得只能这样了，然后自欺欺人地一条路走到黑。\n\n大家都被欲望挟持而无法挣脱，转而把自己厌恶或丑陋的事情，甚至是连自己都不齿的事情，视为主动的追求。有人一边唾骂社会规则，一边又绞尽脑汁地钻研这些规则，以图更好地融入社会；有人像打了鸡血一样面对生活，乐观积极地投入到各种像吃屎一样的事情里——他们追求的真是他们想要的东西吗？","cooked":"

随便摘抄的收藏夹里的话

我们身边有太多人，从懂事时起就不断地欺骗自己，然后欺骗别人，接着欺骗自己的孩子，一代接一代地骗下去。无论意不意识到不对路，他们都觉得只能这样了，然后自欺欺人地一条路走到黑。

大家都被欲望挟持而无法挣脱，转而把自己厌恶或丑陋的事情，甚至是连自己都不齿的事情，视为主动的追求。有人一边唾骂社会规则，一边又绞尽脑汁地钻研这些规则，以图更好地融入社会；有人像打了鸡血一样面对生活，乐观积极地投入到各种像吃屎一样的事情里——他们追求的真是他们想要的东西吗？

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 16:07:19.325069","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 16:07:19.325069","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":232,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":175,"username":"argmin","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8414,"postNumber":7,"raw":"> 骗哥们可以，别骗自己。哥们被你骗了真无所谓的，打个哈哈就过了。但希望你打完这段话后擦一下眼角，别让眼泪掉在手机屏幕上了就行。你说的这些话，哥们信一下也是没什么的。还能让你有个心里安慰，但这种话说出来骗骗兄弟就差不多得了，哥们信你一下也不会少块肉，但是你别搞得自己也当真了就行。哥们被你骗一下是真无所谓的，兄弟笑笑也就过去了。真不是哥们想要破你防，你擦擦眼泪好好想想，除了兄弟谁还会信你这些话","cooked":"

\n
骗哥们可以，别骗自己。哥们被你骗了真无所谓的，打个哈哈就过了。但希望你打完这段话后擦一下眼角，别让眼泪掉在手机屏幕上了就行。你说的这些话，哥们信一下也是没什么的。还能让你有个心里安慰，但这种话说出来骗骗兄弟就差不多得了，哥们信你一下也不会少块肉，但是你别搞得自己也当真了就行。哥们被你骗一下是真无所谓的，兄弟笑笑也就过去了。真不是哥们想要破你防，你擦擦眼泪好好想想，除了兄弟谁还会信你这些话
\n

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 16:09:09.750164","updatedAt":"2023-08-02 16:09:09.750164","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":196,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":175,"username":"argmin","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8418,"postNumber":8,"raw":"**刻意强调**精神的人，往往没有精神。这种做法非蠢即坏，理由如下：\n> 天下皆知美之为美斯恶已\n\n信息时代尤其讲究智慧和策略，不是*辛苦、拼命*就能获得想要的结果的。\n\n某些所谓精神是为了某些人的 propaganda 需要让另一些人心甘情愿地牺牲自身利益。","cooked":"

刻意强调精神的人，往往没有精神。这种做法非蠢即坏，理由如下：

\n
天下皆知美之为美斯恶已
\n

信息时代尤其讲究智慧和策略，不是辛苦、拼命就能获得想要的结果的。

某些所谓精神是为了某些人的 propaganda 需要让另一些人心甘情愿地牺牲自身利益。

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-02 16:30:50.011243","updatedAt":"2024-03-17 13:05:04.580412","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":111,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":259,"username":"ReturnDream","name":"保密"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":2,"publicVersion":2,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8431,"postNumber":9,"raw":"所以忽悠最可恶了👊","cooked":"

所以忽悠最可恶了👊

\n","createdAt":"2023-08-03 04:32:30.046461","updatedAt":"2023-08-03 04:32:30.046461","replyToPostNumber":8,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":9,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":259,"username":"ReturnDream","name":"保密","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":8969,"postNumber":11,"raw":"精神很大程度上是倒果为因，是已成功的东西所被追加的装饰。但是如果你按这个做，却很可能做不来。成功的归因是需要多方面的，片面强调精神那就沦为了所谓的“意志至上”、“精神至上”。如果某个东西失败了，不符合功利的眼光，那就没有必要去强调精神。如果谁想着只需要发扬什么精神，忽视客观的条件，那其用心就是可疑的。某个地方还强调“精神原子弹”，但是谁都明白只不过是纸老虎。","cooked":"

精神很大程度上是倒果为因，是已成功的东西所被追加的装饰。但是如果你按这个做，却很可能做不来。成功的归因是需要多方面的，片面强调精神那就沦为了所谓的“意志至上”、“精神至上”。如果某个东西失败了，不符合功利的眼光，那就没有必要去强调精神。如果谁想着只需要发扬什么精神，忽视客观的条件，那其用心就是可疑的。某个地方还强调“精神原子弹”，但是谁都明白只不过是纸老虎。

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