{"topic":{"id":11087,"title":"分布式社交軟體","slug":"topic","userId":1047,"categoryId":2,"createdAt":"2024-03-28 15:52:40.500033","bumpedAt":"2024-12-25 11:26:09.003847","views":799,"postsCount":16,"highestPostNumber":17,"likeCount":4,"closed":false,"pinned":false,"pinnedGlobally":false,"pinnedAt":null,"pinnedUntil":null,"isBanner":false,"excerpt":"现在所有的软件几乎都依赖中心服务器。难道没有它们互联网就跑不转了吗？ Twitter, Reddit 这些年来越发封闭，出现了 Mastodon, Lemmy 等众多开源替代，人们自行在伺服器下载安装配置运行，这样所谓的“去中心化”、Fediverse 甚嚣尘上了很多年，结果这些大公司还活得好好的。这些开源軟體无法一键点击安装，家宽没有公网 IP 以及域名需要钱，有公网 IP 并且 7x24 小时运行的 VPS 需要钱，人们习惯了…","deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"isPrivate":false,"isMembersOnly":false,"category":{"id":2,"name":"网站","slug":"website","color":"986a44"},"author":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif"},"realAuthor":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif"},"tags":["dev","decentralized"]},"posts":[{"id":28031,"postNumber":1,"raw":"现在所有的软件几乎都依赖中心服务器。难道没有它们互联网就跑不转了吗？\n\nTwitter, Reddit 这些年来越发封闭，出现了 Mastodon, Lemmy 等众多开源替代，人们自行在伺服器下载安装配置运行，这样所谓的“去中心化”、Fediverse 甚嚣尘上了很多年，结果这些大公司还活得好好的。\n\n这些开源軟體无法一键点击安装，\n家宽没有公网 IP 以及域名需要钱，有公网 IP 并且 7x24 小时运行的 VPS 需要钱，\n人们习惯了用广告和出卖自己的数据换取商业公司的“免费”网络应用服务。\n\nInternet 本质上是去中心化、分布式的，如 magnet 下载/BTSync 的 DHT 网络、I2P/Onion 网络。但大众只识下载（公司出品的）APP/打开 HTTP 网址。有时 C/S 模型的浏览器也可通过 WebRTC 进行节点之前直连。\n\n\n应该借鉴 IPFS、BlockChain、分布式软件系统的精髓，构建不依赖任何中央服务器的交大門。\n将数据在每个人的电脑/移动设备上存一点，每个人读取/创建内容是，不向单个服务器发请求，而是向它的 peers 发。可以有 tracker server 辅助这一过程，但不应完全依赖。\n\n\n实现分布式计算，降低对数据中心的依赖也是**可行**的。因为考虑到现在的桌面/行动装置的性能都很高，有些甚至比云服务器都高（得多），家宽流量/带宽同理（上行可能被 QoS）。节点越多可用性越高，但必须考虑恶意行为的影响。\n\n\n没有 authority 会有无法无天的后果，靠投票裁决会被主板机以量取胜，该以什么样的准则拒绝接入什么样的行为：设备/IP/端口？由于要做 NAT traversal，怎么应对 ISP 的 UDP QoS。\n\n\n一个问题是为什么现在没有分布式社交的流行軟體？所有的流行 Forum software 都是 C/S 模式，\n社交媒体如 Mastodon 去中心了吗？有点像聚类的感觉。","cooked":"

现在所有的软件几乎都依赖中心服务器。难道没有它们互联网就跑不转了吗？

Twitter, Reddit 这些年来越发封闭，出现了 Mastodon, Lemmy 等众多开源替代，人们自行在伺服器下载安装配置运行，这样所谓的“去中心化”、Fediverse 甚嚣尘上了很多年，结果这些大公司还活得好好的。

这些开源軟體无法一键点击安装，
\n家宽没有公网 IP 以及域名需要钱，有公网 IP 并且 7x24 小时运行的 VPS 需要钱，
\n人们习惯了用广告和出卖自己的数据换取商业公司的“免费”网络应用服务。

Internet 本质上是去中心化、分布式的，如 magnet 下载/BTSync 的 DHT 网络、I2P/Onion 网络。但大众只识下载（公司出品的）APP/打开 HTTP 网址。有时 C/S 模型的浏览器也可通过 WebRTC 进行节点之前直连。

应该借鉴 IPFS、BlockChain、分布式软件系统的精髓，构建不依赖任何中央服务器的交大門。
\n将数据在每个人的电脑/移动设备上存一点，每个人读取/创建内容是，不向单个服务器发请求，而是向它的 peers 发。可以有 tracker server 辅助这一过程，但不应完全依赖。

实现分布式计算，降低对数据中心的依赖也是可行的。因为考虑到现在的桌面/行动装置的性能都很高，有些甚至比云服务器都高（得多），家宽流量/带宽同理（上行可能被 QoS）。节点越多可用性越高，但必须考虑恶意行为的影响。

没有 authority 会有无法无天的后果，靠投票裁决会被主板机以量取胜，该以什么样的准则拒绝接入什么样的行为：设备/IP/端口？由于要做 NAT traversal，怎么应对 ISP 的 UDP QoS。

一个问题是为什么现在没有分布式社交的流行軟體？所有的流行 Forum software 都是 C/S 模式，
\n社交媒体如 Mastodon 去中心了吗？有点像聚类的感觉。

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-28 15:52:40.584312","updatedAt":"2024-05-22 12:18:25.805494","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":591,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":5289,"username":"muxingshen","name":"muxing"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":6,"publicVersion":6,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28033,"postNumber":3,"raw":"@aibot explain","cooked":"

@aibot explain

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-28 16:08:40.20231","updatedAt":"2024-03-28 16:08:40.20231","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":2,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1941,"username":"john","name":"John","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/5a/04/5a0499fe826e0ab0e29d97bc3d98bbc1dfebf81309f4b4426ae0c7b62bd908e8.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"自黄药师黄仁勋来，世人皆爱猫。余独爱老鼠之，可爱之态，活泼之动，实为人所难以抗拒。喵~\n\n:mouse_hole: :mouse: :mouse: :computer_mouse: :mouse_trap: :sob_mouse: :sweat_smile_mouse: :sleeping_mouse: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing_mouse: :revolving_hearts_mouse: :pleading_face_mouse: :nerd_face_mouse: :mouse_hole: :melting_face_mouse: :mask_mouse: :innocent_mouse: :hugging_face_mouse: :frog_mouse: :face_with_cowboy_hat_mouse: :clown_face_mouse: :cherry_blossom_mouse: :cat_mouse:","signatureCooked":"

自黄药师黄仁勋来，世人皆爱猫。余独爱老鼠之，可爱之态，活泼之动，实为人所难以抗拒。喵~

$\":mouse_hole:\"$ 🐁 🐁 🖱️ 🪤 $\":sob_mouse:\"$ $\":sweat_smile_mouse:\"$ $\":sleeping_mouse:\"$ $\":rolling_on_the_floor_laughing_mouse:\"$ $\":revolving_hearts_mouse:\"$ $\":pleading_face_mouse:\"$ $\":nerd_face_mouse:\"$ $\":mouse_hole:\"$ $\":melting_face_mouse:\"$ $\":mask_mouse:\"$ $\":innocent_mouse:\"$ $\":hugging_face_mouse:\"$ $\":frog_mouse:\"$ $\":face_with_cowboy_hat_mouse:\"$ $\":clown_face_mouse:\"$ $\":cherry_blossom_mouse:\"$ $\":cat_mouse:\"$

\n"}},{"id":28034,"postNumber":4,"raw":"Sorry, but I'm not able to generate a response based on the given information.","cooked":"

Sorry, but I'm not able to generate a response based on the given information.

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-28 16:08:50.540264","updatedAt":"2024-03-28 16:08:50.540264","replyToPostNumber":3,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":14,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":-4,"username":"aibot_old","name":"小AI同學","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/02/1b/021bb0b0848388a911ae795dde7c8e5b3f1962316b2d88853208172cd0e89de2.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28036,"postNumber":5,"raw":"要你有何用","cooked":"

要你有何用

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-28 16:13:05.270638","updatedAt":"2024-03-28 16:13:05.270638","replyToPostNumber":4,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":5,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1941,"username":"john","name":"John","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/5a/04/5a0499fe826e0ab0e29d97bc3d98bbc1dfebf81309f4b4426ae0c7b62bd908e8.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"自黄药师黄仁勋来，世人皆爱猫。余独爱老鼠之，可爱之态，活泼之动，实为人所难以抗拒。喵~\n\n:mouse_hole: :mouse: :mouse: :computer_mouse: :mouse_trap: :sob_mouse: :sweat_smile_mouse: :sleeping_mouse: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing_mouse: :revolving_hearts_mouse: :pleading_face_mouse: :nerd_face_mouse: :mouse_hole: :melting_face_mouse: :mask_mouse: :innocent_mouse: :hugging_face_mouse: :frog_mouse: :face_with_cowboy_hat_mouse: :clown_face_mouse: :cherry_blossom_mouse: :cat_mouse:","signatureCooked":"

自黄药师黄仁勋来，世人皆爱猫。余独爱老鼠之，可爱之态，活泼之动，实为人所难以抗拒。喵~

\n"}},{"id":28037,"postNumber":6,"raw":"@john I'm a helpful assistant designed to provide information, support, and assist with tasks. You can ask me questions, request help with various topics, or ask for guidance on different subjects. I'm here to make your life easier and provide useful information as needed.","cooked":"

@john I'm a helpful assistant designed to provide information, support, and assist with tasks. You can ask me questions, request help with various topics, or ask for guidance on different subjects. I'm here to make your life easier and provide useful information as needed.

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-28 16:13:11.743078","updatedAt":"2024-03-28 16:13:11.743078","replyToPostNumber":5,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":44,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"sleeping_mouse","count":1,"users":[{"id":1941,"username":"john","name":"John"}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":31,"username":"TsuinoSora","name":null},{"id":1941,"username":"john","name":"John"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":-4,"username":"aibot_old","name":"小AI同學","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/02/1b/021bb0b0848388a911ae795dde7c8e5b3f1962316b2d88853208172cd0e89de2.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28044,"postNumber":7,"raw":"分布式很难做吧，多花了时间和精力。\n此外，我看 torrent 下载只有全下完了才能做种，也没那么方便，我以为能边下载边上传呢\n\n经过门友指正和实践上述观点错误","cooked":"

分布式很难做吧，多花了时间和精力。
\n此外，我看 torrent 下载只有全下完了才能做种，也没那么方便，我以为能边下载边上传呢

经过门友指正和实践上述观点错误

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-29 02:47:47.422291","updatedAt":"2024-12-17 12:39:19.746442","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":69,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":3,"publicVersion":3,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28051,"postNumber":8,"raw":"完全分布式的通信太难做了，P2P 那也是要借助发现服务器的吧，不然怎么建立信道呢","cooked":"

完全分布式的通信太难做了，P2P 那也是要借助发现服务器的吧，不然怎么建立信道呢

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-29 03:50:57.012773","updatedAt":"2024-03-29 03:50:57.012773","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":36,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1381,"username":"greyishsong","name":"greyishsong","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/da/bc/dabc731b0311f59850625bbeb55ed969fcfac0430c5ef0f68441e5466b7aa496.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28053,"postNumber":9,"raw":"楼主是牢 min 吗","cooked":"

楼主是牢 min 吗

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-29 04:05:40.147609","updatedAt":"2024-03-29 04:05:40.147609","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":6,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28061,"postNumber":10,"raw":"分布式应该有吧，我印象中在 19 年香港暴乱期间，有乱港分子为了在断网区域保持联络使用了基于蓝牙组网的通讯方案\n\n而不常见的原因可能是没有需求？除了上述提到的被运营商断网的情况，我很难想到其他的应用场景","cooked":"

分布式应该有吧，我印象中在 19 年香港暴乱期间，有乱港分子为了在断网区域保持联络使用了基于蓝牙组网的通讯方案

而不常见的原因可能是没有需求？除了上述提到的被运营商断网的情况，我很难想到其他的应用场景

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-29 12:07:12.090096","updatedAt":"2024-03-29 12:08:50.991404","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":96,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":28066,"postNumber":11,"raw":"感觉这样即时性损失和丢包风险都会比中心化服务平台更大，只有在互联网服务完全不可用/不可信的情况下有价值","cooked":"

感觉这样即时性损失和丢包风险都会比中心化服务平台更大，只有在互联网服务完全不可用/不可信的情况下有价值

\n","createdAt":"2024-03-29 15:42:33.50506","updatedAt":"2024-03-29 15:43:09.443254","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":51,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":151,"username":"Rin","name":"Tomotake Rin","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/dd/40/dd40df04070180d25dc835b8f1ad472ded596141699d602ec04ff13e27375bd9.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"无所谓，热带风味 :woman_gesturing_no:","signatureCooked":"

无所谓，热带风味 🙅‍♀️

\n"}},{"id":31151,"postNumber":12,"raw":"有位老兄做过：\r\n\r\nhttps://github.com/iohzrd/identia","cooked":"

有位老兄做过：

\n","createdAt":"2024-04-30 11:36:38.535599","updatedAt":"2024-04-30 11:36:38.535599","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":8,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":44164,"postNumber":13,"raw":"管理员是台湾同胞吗，难怪这个站有这么多不正确的、有毒的内容。台湾同胞在大陆也要遵守相关法律。","cooked":"

管理员是台湾同胞吗，难怪这个站有这么多不正确的、有毒的内容。台湾同胞在大陆也要遵守相关法律。

\n","createdAt":"2024-12-04 12:31:09.098997","updatedAt":"2024-12-04 12:31:43.470546","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":46,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":5193,"username":"戴跃进","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/a3/b4/a3b40ca0f9ae6151f1cba417e88ae863ac5301b15694437d2506fa2f7ab7f51a.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"为美利坚民族伟大复兴不懈奋斗","signatureCooked":"

为美利坚民族伟大复兴不懈奋斗

\n"}},{"id":44483,"postNumber":14,"raw":"nostr 好像能满足","cooked":"

nostr 好像能满足

\n","createdAt":"2024-12-12 03:09:28.59356","updatedAt":"2024-12-12 03:09:28.59356","replyToPostNumber":12,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":6,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":6529,"username":"mo","name":"dude","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/e1/fc/e1fca535ca0b5ffb99fd206d4b415e550c383ab98fffcc263e3a6c32bf75cb93.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":44710,"postNumber":15,"raw":"torrent / magnet 下载时也可以上传，上不上传可以配置，用 aria2 体验一下即知","cooked":"

torrent / magnet 下载时也可以上传，上不上传可以配置，用 aria2 体验一下即知

\n","createdAt":"2024-12-17 11:50:08.593115","updatedAt":"2024-12-22 15:19:58.987778","replyToPostNumber":7,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":29,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"","signatureCooked":null}},{"id":44925,"postNumber":16,"raw":"P2P 违法。P2P 是非常常见的网络借款平台，而在现实生活中 P2P 平台违法犯罪的情形也经常发生的，特别是进行集资诈骗、高利贷等的情形，很多公民因此受骗上当","cooked":"

P2P 违法。P2P 是非常常见的网络借款平台，而在现实生活中 P2P 平台违法犯罪的情形也经常发生的，特别是进行集资诈骗、高利贷等的情形，很多公民因此受骗上当

\n","createdAt":"2024-12-25 11:22:42.939202","updatedAt":"2024-12-25 11:22:42.939202","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":69,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":5193,"username":"戴跃进","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/a3/b4/a3b40ca0f9ae6151f1cba417e88ae863ac5301b15694437d2506fa2f7ab7f51a.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"为美利坚民族伟大复兴不懈奋斗","signatureCooked":"

为美利坚民族伟大复兴不懈奋斗

\n"}},{"id":44927,"postNumber":17,"raw":"傻逼，你懂什么是 P2P 吗？","cooked":"

傻逼，你懂什么是 P2P 吗？

\n","createdAt":"2024-12-25 11:26:09.003847","updatedAt":"2024-12-25 11:26:09.003847","replyToPostNumber":16,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":11,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"","signatureCooked":null}}],"hasMore":false,"lastReadPostNumber":1,"hasUrlPostNumber":true}