{"topic":{"id":15426,"title":"罗丹中心与《学做工》中子承父业的困境","slug":"topic","userId":346,"categoryId":11,"createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:31:27.959305","bumpedAt":"2026-01-10 13:03:53.844142","views":593,"postsCount":14,"highestPostNumber":14,"likeCount":8,"closed":false,"pinned":false,"pinnedGlobally":false,"pinnedAt":null,"pinnedUntil":null,"isBanner":false,"excerpt":"在教育为主题的一次读书交流会中听主讲者讨论一篇论文《读书的料及其文化再生产》。作者就是一名普通的农村人逐步成长为教授，于是他这文章部分驱动因素是为了分析自身的在学校体系中成长为教授的经历。会中引用了一篇更早的学术书籍《学做工》写于上世纪中叶，讲到工人阶级的孩子，宿命般的子承父业，学习父亲的手艺。但是在现代重新考虑文献的描述，其实《学做工》中自然的\"子承父业\"反而成为一件非常困难的事情。父辈的许多经验很难传承下来。社会分工高度分化，父辈…","deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"isPrivate":false,"isMembersOnly":false,"category":{"id":11,"name":"深入交流","slug":"distilled","color":"c01c28"},"author":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif"},"realAuthor":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif"},"tags":[]},"posts":[{"id":70141,"postNumber":1,"raw":"在教育为主题的一次读书交流会中听主讲者讨论一篇论文《读书的料及其文化再生产》。作者就是一名普通的农村人逐步成长为教授，于是他这文章部分驱动因素是为了分析自身的在学校体系中成长为教授的经历。会中引用了一篇更早的学术书籍《学做工》写于上世纪中叶，讲到工人阶级的孩子，宿命般的子承父业，学习父亲的手艺。\n\n但是在现代重新考虑文献的描述，其实《学做工》中自然的\"子承父业\"反而成为一件非常困难的事情。父辈的许多经验很难传承下来。社会分工高度分化，父辈也许只掌握一个行业的技能。假如孩子不愿意学，做了其他工作（这样的工作极其多），技能的继承便中断了。如一亲戚是电工，但孩子并不学电，而是在电器店里销售。另外，经常父母教育的主动性远弱于学校天然的主动性，不知如何将技能传授。如父母是个体户，但是如果让我去经营一个小店，我目前绝对做不到的。\n\n听闻罗丹中心的策展人罗静自我讲述的个人经历，也给我这样的感觉。她虽然把这个艺术项目搞得很成功，但是项目完全不具备可持续性。她启动资金是把家里赚钱的房地产地块卖掉得来的，项目本身也收到了她父母的质疑。但是这个罗丹中心建，我看在元旦下午来逛展的人可能也就 100 左右，根本不支持他每年 2,000 万的费用和 7,000 万的投入。假如说她是创业，那肯定算失败的，只是用富三代的财富资源完成了这个项目，实现自我价值。但是父母辈如何持续经营房地产的技术，估计是一点没学到。","cooked":"

在教育为主题的一次读书交流会中听主讲者讨论一篇论文《读书的料及其文化再生产》。作者就是一名普通的农村人逐步成长为教授，于是他这文章部分驱动因素是为了分析自身的在学校体系中成长为教授的经历。会中引用了一篇更早的学术书籍《学做工》写于上世纪中叶，讲到工人阶级的孩子，宿命般的子承父业，学习父亲的手艺。

但是在现代重新考虑文献的描述，其实《学做工》中自然的\"子承父业\"反而成为一件非常困难的事情。父辈的许多经验很难传承下来。社会分工高度分化，父辈也许只掌握一个行业的技能。假如孩子不愿意学，做了其他工作（这样的工作极其多），技能的继承便中断了。如一亲戚是电工，但孩子并不学电，而是在电器店里销售。另外，经常父母教育的主动性远弱于学校天然的主动性，不知如何将技能传授。如父母是个体户，但是如果让我去经营一个小店，我目前绝对做不到的。

听闻罗丹中心的策展人罗静自我讲述的个人经历，也给我这样的感觉。她虽然把这个艺术项目搞得很成功，但是项目完全不具备可持续性。她启动资金是把家里赚钱的房地产地块卖掉得来的，项目本身也收到了她父母的质疑。但是这个罗丹中心建，我看在元旦下午来逛展的人可能也就 100 左右，根本不支持他每年 2,000 万的费用和 7,000 万的投入。假如说她是创业，那肯定算失败的，只是用富三代的财富资源完成了这个项目，实现自我价值。但是父母辈如何持续经营房地产的技术，估计是一点没学到。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:31:28.049139","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 14:31:57.004264","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":577,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":5940,"username":"water","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70142,"postNumber":2,"raw":"别说房地产，大多数人大多数产业都注定失败。不搞 AI，死路一条。","cooked":"

别说房地产，大多数人大多数产业都注定失败。不搞 AI，死路一条。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:46:41.084375","updatedAt":"2026-01-10 03:45:32.920224","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":29,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":7951,"username":"黄思博","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70143,"postNumber":3,"raw":"Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.","cooked":"

Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:46:42.460064","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 14:46:42.460064","replyToPostNumber":2,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":24,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":-1,"username":"system","name":"system","avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70145,"postNumber":4,"raw":"别说房地产，大多数人大多数产业都注定失败。不搞 αι，死路一条。","cooked":"

别说房地产，大多数人大多数产业都注定失败。不搞 αι，死路一条。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:48:19.685558","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 15:00:06.336566","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":29,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":7951,"username":"黄思博","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70146,"postNumber":5,"raw":"Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.","cooked":"

Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:48:21.22941","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 14:48:21.22941","replyToPostNumber":4,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":24,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":-1,"username":"system","name":"system","avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70148,"postNumber":6,"raw":"别说房地产，大多数人大多数产业都注定失败。不稿欸艾，斯路一条。","cooked":"

别说房地产，大多数人大多数产业都注定失败。不稿欸艾，斯路一条。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:49:14.416984","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 14:59:14.252865","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":31,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":7951,"username":"黄思博","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70149,"postNumber":7,"raw":"Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.","cooked":"

Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 14:49:15.97563","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 14:49:15.97563","replyToPostNumber":6,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":24,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":-1,"username":"system","name":"system","avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70151,"postNumber":8,"raw":"[quote=\"hoist, post:1, topic:15426\"]\n实现自我价值\n[/quote]\n\n赚钱是实现自我价值\n不赚钱实现的就是自我消费满足","cooked":"

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\thoist:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n
实现自我价值
\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

赚钱是实现自我价值
\n不赚钱实现的就是自我消费满足

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 15:15:04.949502","updatedAt":"2026-01-10 03:45:28.523041","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":2,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":33,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":7639,"username":"Zethes","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"我虽然行过死荫的幽谷，也不怕遭害，因为你与我同在。\n诗篇 23:4","signatureCooked":"

我虽然行过死荫的幽谷，也不怕遭害，因为你与我同在。
\n诗篇 23:4

\n"}},{"id":70152,"postNumber":9,"raw":"Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.","cooked":"

Sorry, your post is identified as NSFW. This may be false-positive. Moderates shall act ASAP. Thanks for your attention on this matter. BOT-CREATOR ADMIN.

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 15:15:06.41859","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 15:15:06.41859","replyToPostNumber":8,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":24,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":-1,"username":"system","name":"system","avatarUrl":null,"admin":true,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70155,"postNumber":10,"raw":"看到 lz 在上个帖子提到的信息，我元旦假期去了一趟罗丹艺术中心，确实冷清的让我感到意外。我之前的印象里认为国内绝大多数私人博物馆/策展是完全亏损的，大抵可以做到门票收入和宣传维护支出平齐，场地和展品则属于纯支出。所以完全可以说是策展人不考虑收支的自我实现，至于她本人作为收藏家和家族企业资本的经营者的商业成就无论好坏也完全和这个项目无关。\n\n对于 90 后和 00 后这一代人来说世界发展的太快了，大部分人完全无法从父辈学到有效的对世界的理解，最多只是继承储蓄和产业资本，然后走向生死未卜的路径依赖。目前看起来比较有效的是教育资源和教育意愿的继承，例如清北或者学校教授的家长培养出清北或者竞赛金牌得主的孩子。","cooked":"

看到 lz 在上个帖子提到的信息，我元旦假期去了一趟罗丹艺术中心，确实冷清的让我感到意外。我之前的印象里认为国内绝大多数私人博物馆/策展是完全亏损的，大抵可以做到门票收入和宣传维护支出平齐，场地和展品则属于纯支出。所以完全可以说是策展人不考虑收支的自我实现，至于她本人作为收藏家和家族企业资本的经营者的商业成就无论好坏也完全和这个项目无关。

对于 90 后和 00 后这一代人来说世界发展的太快了，大部分人完全无法从父辈学到有效的对世界的理解，最多只是继承储蓄和产业资本，然后走向生死未卜的路径依赖。目前看起来比较有效的是教育资源和教育意愿的继承，例如清北或者学校教授的家长培养出清北或者竞赛金牌得主的孩子。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-09 17:08:13.651503","updatedAt":"2026-01-09 17:08:13.651503","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":4,"wordCount":294,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":4,"users":[{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null},{"id":5151,"username":"Soyo34325","name":"Soyo34325"},{"id":5940,"username":"water","name":null},{"id":7981,"username":"TwlnfuSprig","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2877,"username":"Zerick","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/a7/a3/a7a3f86ac04b30a3177766813966fa48ce68b0e1cc009a8d274e34ab13a43ce9.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70179,"postNumber":11,"raw":"吼吼，你也去了。相比私人，浦东美术馆那个人流绝对大赚。\n\n在周边没见过被父母用实践引导的企二代 or 政二代。","cooked":"

吼吼，你也去了。相比私人，浦东美术馆那个人流绝对大赚。

在周边没见过被父母用实践引导的企二代 or 政二代。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-10 10:34:18.501363","updatedAt":"2026-01-10 10:34:47.209566","replyToPostNumber":10,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":50,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70180,"postNumber":12,"raw":"花到名字登上卢浮宫的程度也还是蛮厉害的，感觉比普通的消费高一层次。","cooked":"

花到名字登上卢浮宫的程度也还是蛮厉害的，感觉比普通的消费高一层次。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-10 10:37:26.566801","updatedAt":"2026-01-10 10:37:26.566801","replyToPostNumber":8,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":33,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"😇️","count":1,"users":[{"id":7639,"username":"Zethes","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":7639,"username":"Zethes","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":70185,"postNumber":13,"raw":"[quote=\"hoist, post:1, topic:15426\"]\n但是在现代重新考虑文献的描述，其实《学做工》中自然的\"子承父业\"反而成为一件非常困难的事情。父辈的许多经验很难传承下来。\n[/quote]\n\n可能有知识变难&知识更新换代变快两方面因素吧。","cooked":"

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\thoist:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n
但是在现代重新考虑文献的描述，其实《学做工》中自然的\"子承父业\"反而成为一件非常困难的事情。父辈的许多经验很难传承下来。
\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

可能有知识变难&知识更新换代变快两方面因素吧。

\n","createdAt":"2026-01-10 11:50:05.647242","updatedAt":"2026-01-10 11:50:05.647242","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":87,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1929,"username":"Quit","name":"Qwen","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"--.-..-....-..----.","signatureCooked":"

--.-..-....-..----.

\n"}},{"id":70199,"postNumber":14,"raw":"我甚至没觉得浦东美术馆那个人流有多赚钱（\n查证了一下\nMAP25 年因为奥赛展首次过百万人次，同时 25 年度申请的补贴预算为 20million\nhttps://www.pudong.gov.cn/zwgk/czxx-wtlyjysjxgl/2025/57/338139/4f07739cefd44a658957a683186e8cfb.pdf\n（浦东的信息公开做的真好啊不愧是上海\n预估今年的展览和运营成本为 80million \n如果考虑地皮的成本的话我觉得最理想状态下今年收支平衡或者小赚\n加上前几年的建设和运营成本可以说项目收益目前仍然为负，甚至可以说永远不追求财务回正\n因为 gov 考量的也是公益程度/知名度/城市叙事","cooked":"

我甚至没觉得浦东美术馆那个人流有多赚钱（
\n查证了一下
\nMAP25 年因为奥赛展首次过百万人次，同时 25 年度申请的补贴预算为 20million

https://www.pudong.gov.cn/zwgk/czxx-wtlyjysjxgl/2025/57/338139/4f07739cefd44a658957a683186e8cfb.pdf

\n（浦东的信息公开做的真好啊不愧是上海\n预估今年的展览和运营成本为 80million \n如果考虑地皮的成本的话我觉得最理想状态下今年收支平衡或者小赚\n加上前几年的建设和运营成本可以说项目收益目前仍然为负，甚至可以说永远不追求财务回正\n因为 gov 考量的也是公益程度/知名度/城市叙事","createdAt":"2026-01-10 13:03:53.844142","updatedAt":"2026-01-10 13:03:53.844142","replyToPostNumber":11,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":179,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2877,"username":"Zerick","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/a7/a3/a7a3f86ac04b30a3177766813966fa48ce68b0e1cc009a8d274e34ab13a43ce9.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}}],"hasMore":false,"lastReadPostNumber":13,"hasUrlPostNumber":true}