{"topic":{"id":14143,"title":"网络外部性与维持社团运转的关键数量","slug":"topic","categoryId":11,"createdAt":"2025-01-18 05:41:06.516833","bumpedAt":"2025-09-21 17:37:05.64765","views":328,"postsCount":11,"highestPostNumber":11,"likeCount":23,"closed":false,"pinned":false,"excerpt":"https://xjtu.app/t/topic/14131 不是因为没人愿意为社团付出，导致社团没人了；而是社团没人了导致社团没人了。网络外部性 (network externalities) 是指某些商品具有的消费者获得收益随着使用人数变化而变化的性质。对于\"参与社团\", 显然随着社团活跃成员的增多，每一个新加入的成员的收获就越多，因此具有正网络外部性 (positive network externalities). 设每个成员…","deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"category":{"id":11,"name":"深入交流","slug":"distilled","color":"c01c28"},"author":{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/76/3b/763b1e5ad8a424c4450bb26cea5ae532e7b1cd9da926ac5d99215d7123bf6002.avif"},"tags":[]},"posts":[{"id":45525,"postNumber":1,"raw":"https://xjtu.app/t/topic/14131\n\n不是因为没人愿意为社团付出，导致社团没人了；而是社团没人了导致社团没人了。\n\n**网络外部性 (network externalities)** 是指某些商品具有的消费者获得收益随着使用人数变化而变化的性质。对于\"参与社团\", 显然随着社团活跃成员的增多，每一个新加入的成员的收获就越多，因此具有**正网络外部性 (positive network externalities)**.\n\n设每个成员需要付出的精力为 $p$, 收获的满足感为 $U$, 而则可以将社团抽象为一个具有正网络外部性的消费品。\n\n设某社团成员数量为 $1$, 根据其对于社团活动的热情程度在 $[0, 1]$ 上服从均匀分布 (数值越低代表越热情). 对每一个成员 $x \\in [0, 1]$, 根据其参与活动与否，效用函数可写为:\n\n$\nU_x = \\begin{cases}\nn(1-x)-p &\\text{if participates} \\\\\n0 &\\text{if not}\n\\end{cases}\n$\n\n其中 $n$ 为活跃成员总数。可以理解为：若 $x$ 参与活动，则每一个参与活动的成员 (总数为 $n$) 都能提供一份 $1-x$ 的回报 (热情程度越高，$x$ 越小，回报就越高).\n\n当 $n(1- \\hat{x})-p = 0$ 时参与活动与否对成员 $\\hat{x}$ 没有区别，也就是说此时所有 $x<\\hat{x}$ 都会参与活动，而所有 $x>\\hat{x}$ 都不参加。可知 $n = \\hat{x}$.\n\n将该式写作 $p = \\hat{x}(1-\\hat{x})$, 发现是一个开口向下的抛物线，顶点的值为 $0.25$. 则对每一个 $p_0 \\in [0, 0.25)$ 都有两个 $\\hat{x}$ 值与之对应，分别记为 $\\hat{x}_L$ 与 $\\hat{x}_H$.\n\n可以发现，若 $\\hat{x} < \\hat{x}_L$, 每个成员的回报严格小于付出，此时不会有人选择参与活动。称 $\\hat{x}_L$ 是维持社团最低限度运转的**关键数量 (critical mass)**.\n\n据观察，几个技术类社团 xxA、xxC、xx1 等的活跃成员都不大于 2. 故你社当前破局的关键是立即调动起一群社员，而架构、设计、服务之类的则是后话了。","cooked":"

不是因为没人愿意为社团付出，导致社团没人了；而是社团没人了导致社团没人了。

网络外部性 (network externalities) 是指某些商品具有的消费者获得收益随着使用人数变化而变化的性质。对于\"参与社团\", 显然随着社团活跃成员的增多，每一个新加入的成员的收获就越多，因此具有正网络外部性 (positive network externalities).

设每个成员需要付出的精力为 $p$ , 收获的满足感为 $U$ , 而则可以将社团抽象为一个具有正网络外部性的消费品。

设某社团成员数量为 $1$ , 根据其对于社团活动的热情程度在 $[0, 1]$ 上服从均匀分布 (数值越低代表越热情). 对每一个成员 $x \\in [0, 1]$ , 根据其参与活动与否，效用函数可写为:

$
\nU_x = \\begin{cases}
\nn(1-x)-p &\\text{if participates} \\
\n0 &\\text{if not}
\n\\end{cases}
\n$

其中 $n$ 为活跃成员总数。可以理解为：若 $x$ 参与活动，则每一个参与活动的成员 (总数为 $n$ ) 都能提供一份 $1-x$ 的回报 (热情程度越高， $x$ 越小，回报就越高).

当 $n(1- \\hat{x})-p = 0$ 时参与活动与否对成员 $\\hat{x}$ 没有区别，也就是说此时所有 $x<\\hat{x}$ 都会参与活动，而所有 $x>\\hat{x}$ 都不参加。可知 $n = \\hat{x}$ .

将该式写作 $p = \\hat{x}(1-\\hat{x})$ , 发现是一个开口向下的抛物线，顶点的值为 $0.25$ . 则对每一个 $p_0 \\in [0, 0.25)$ 都有两个 $\\hat{x}$ 值与之对应，分别记为 $\\hat{x}_L$ 与 $\\hat{x}_H$ .

可以发现，若 $\\hat{x} < \\hat{x}_L$ , 每个成员的回报严格小于付出，此时不会有人选择参与活动。称 $\\hat{x}_L$ 是维持社团最低限度运转的关键数量 (critical mass).

据观察，几个技术类社团 xxA、xxC、xx1 等的活跃成员都不大于 2. 故你社当前破局的关键是立即调动起一群社员，而架构、设计、服务之类的则是后话了。

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-18 05:41:06.768348","updatedAt":"2025-01-18 12:03:51.088518","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":11,"wordCount":554,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":11,"users":[{"id":200,"username":"Srotseiticar","name":null},{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null},{"id":3003,"username":"welldown","name":"Jerry"},{"id":4148,"username":"sad-dharma-vipralopa","name":"Echo est ubi sum"},{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null},{"id":5151,"username":"Soyo34325","name":"Soyo34325"},{"id":5351,"username":"Xrystal-line","name":"羽流弦ノ迹"},{"id":5905,"username":"PipaQinse233","name":"PipaQinse233"},{"id":6984,"username":"realSandro_Z","name":"Sandro_Z"},{"id":7020,"username":"可燃冰","name":"可燃冰"},{"id":7723,"username":"Narrenshiff","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":4,"publicVersion":4,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/76/3b/763b1e5ad8a424c4450bb26cea5ae532e7b1cd9da926ac5d99215d7123bf6002.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45536,"postNumber":2,"raw":"有意思的理论，关键数量的确定可能揭示一些社区的内在特点","cooked":"

有意思的理论，关键数量的确定可能揭示一些社区的内在特点

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-18 10:12:13.713781","updatedAt":"2025-01-18 10:13:42.8583","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":27,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45537,"postNumber":3,"raw":"之所以叫“网络外部性”就是因为是在研究网络平台时得出的（","cooked":"

之所以叫“网络外部性”就是因为是在研究网络平台时得出的（

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-18 10:42:32.151078","updatedAt":"2025-01-18 10:42:32.151078","replyToPostNumber":2,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":28,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/76/3b/763b1e5ad8a424c4450bb26cea5ae532e7b1cd9da926ac5d99215d7123bf6002.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45539,"postNumber":4,"raw":"所以还是像 ob 一串字母女士说的那样：社团是命运共同体.jpg","cooked":"

所以还是像 ob 一串字母女士说的那样：社团是命运共同体.jpg

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-18 15:51:56.644683","updatedAt":"2025-01-18 15:51:56.644683","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":26,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2877,"username":"Zerick","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/a7/a3/a7a3f86ac04b30a3177766813966fa48ce68b0e1cc009a8d274e34ab13a43ce9.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45543,"postNumber":5,"raw":"我什么都没有了，只剩下你社了ですわ！","cooked":"

我什么都没有了，只剩下你社了ですわ！

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-18 16:31:48.752875","updatedAt":"2025-01-18 16:38:02.23245","replyToPostNumber":4,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":18,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":2,"publicVersion":2,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/76/3b/763b1e5ad8a424c4450bb26cea5ae532e7b1cd9da926ac5d99215d7123bf6002.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45547,"postNumber":6,"raw":"快用你无敌的财团想想办法啊","cooked":"

快用你无敌的财团想想办法啊

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-18 18:31:54.593745","updatedAt":"2025-01-18 18:31:54.593745","replyToPostNumber":5,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":13,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":601,"username":"m0rsun","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/37/7f/377f4ae853850691ab959270f01d52509ee07caf808041ddb0ab22488a0e9f85.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45550,"postNumber":7,"raw":"负债累累被财团赶出来了わ，只能参演 ACCEED 社的池沼影片来还债了罢！","cooked":"

负债累累被财团赶出来了わ，只能参演 ACCEED 社的池沼影片来还债了罢！

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-19 03:28:32.192385","updatedAt":"2025-01-19 03:28:32.192385","replyToPostNumber":6,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":30,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"🤣️","count":1,"users":[{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null},{"id":7723,"username":"Narrenshiff","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/76/3b/763b1e5ad8a424c4450bb26cea5ae532e7b1cd9da926ac5d99215d7123bf6002.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45552,"postNumber":8,"raw":"那么在哪里可以看到呢 (无感情)","cooked":"

那么在哪里可以看到呢 (无感情)

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-19 03:45:26.088522","updatedAt":"2025-01-19 03:45:26.088522","replyToPostNumber":7,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":3,"wordCount":15,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❔️","count":1,"users":[{"id":200,"username":"Srotseiticar","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"plus1","count":1,"users":[{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"hugging_face_exploding_head","count":1,"users":[{"id":5905,"username":"PipaQinse233","name":"PipaQinse233"}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":3,"users":[{"id":200,"username":"Srotseiticar","name":null},{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null},{"id":5905,"username":"PipaQinse233","name":"PipaQinse233"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":601,"username":"m0rsun","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/37/7f/377f4ae853850691ab959270f01d52509ee07caf808041ddb0ab22488a0e9f85.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45594,"postNumber":9,"raw":"和这个帖子遇到的困境十分相似。\n\nhttps://xjtu.app/t/topic/14131\n\n不过此事在奥尔森名作《集体行动的逻辑》中有非常详细的论述和记载，以及解决办法，总的来说：\n\n只要是一种组织，就不可避免地会陷入这样的困境：成员并不会为了组织的利益 / 组织可能给 Ta 带来的利益，而去有所行动。就比如说最简单的，因为音乐社团要去演出，所以借到了排练教室用。而音乐社团中不参与演出的其他人，完全可以在开摆的情况下蹭排练教室用。如果个人无法从集体中获取经济利益 / 来自集体的商品服务，或者说 Ta 所贡献的 1 无法通过集体的效用变成 1.5 甚至 2，那对于 Ta 来说，这就是一个非理性行为（我们不能假设社团中都是愿意自我牺牲的感性人，一个健康运转的社团更不能去利用他们的自我牺牲）。\n\n[6-奥尔森 - 集体行动的逻辑.pdf|attachment](/uploads/pdf/f9/b4/f9b415e85d5f7f1f9c48cbaeed5a26aff050a72c19820e42bd2a748af0a41595.pdf) (4.7 MB)","cooked":"

和这个帖子遇到的困境十分相似。

https://xjtu.app/t/topic/14131

不过此事在奥尔森名作《集体行动的逻辑》中有非常详细的论述和记载，以及解决办法，总的来说：

只要是一种组织，就不可避免地会陷入这样的困境：成员并不会为了组织的利益 / 组织可能给 Ta 带来的利益，而去有所行动。就比如说最简单的，因为音乐社团要去演出，所以借到了排练教室用。而音乐社团中不参与演出的其他人，完全可以在开摆的情况下蹭排练教室用。如果个人无法从集体中获取经济利益 / 来自集体的商品服务，或者说 Ta 所贡献的 1 无法通过集体的效用变成 1.5 甚至 2，那对于 Ta 来说，这就是一个非理性行为（我们不能假设社团中都是愿意自我牺牲的感性人，一个健康运转的社团更不能去利用他们的自我牺牲）。

6-奥尔森 - 集体行动的逻辑.pdf|attachment (4.7 MB)

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-19 14:50:21.813705","updatedAt":"2025-01-19 14:54:43.377751","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":309,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":5905,"username":"PipaQinse233","name":"PipaQinse233"},{"id":7723,"username":"Narrenshiff","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":7020,"username":"可燃冰","name":"可燃冰","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":45595,"postNumber":10,"raw":"我的想法是这样的：如果我们根据奥尔森的理论，对楼主的建模进行修正的话，实际上会有一些变化。\n\n当不参加活动时，Ux 应该为一个正数，因为当 Ux = 0 时，非社团成员完全没有加入社团的理由。\n\n当参加活动时，n(1-x) 实际上是每人热情的加总，而活动总的成就感实际上并非是每人热情的加总（比如说打比赛每个人都很热情，但是一点名次都没拿到），而是最终我们体验到的 / 享受到的服务，即大家做出来的蛋糕，这应该是每人贡献的加总。\n\n（或许等我回顾一下这本书，还会有其他更好的想法。","cooked":"

我的想法是这样的：如果我们根据奥尔森的理论，对楼主的建模进行修正的话，实际上会有一些变化。

当不参加活动时，Ux 应该为一个正数，因为当 Ux = 0 时，非社团成员完全没有加入社团的理由。

当参加活动时，n(1-x) 实际上是每人热情的加总，而活动总的成就感实际上并非是每人热情的加总（比如说打比赛每个人都很热情，但是一点名次都没拿到），而是最终我们体验到的 / 享受到的服务，即大家做出来的蛋糕，这应该是每人贡献的加总。

（或许等我回顾一下这本书，还会有其他更好的想法。

\n","createdAt":"2025-01-19 15:04:25.761003","updatedAt":"2025-01-19 15:07:55.892412","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":216,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":7723,"username":"Narrenshiff","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":7020,"username":"可燃冰","name":"可燃冰","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":66137,"postNumber":11,"raw":"[quote=\"upload_bot, post:1, topic:645\"]\n我也好奇每年社团招新宣传为什么没有一个集中各类资源的地方，都在各自的“公众号”上发布。唯一的集中就是在图书馆南广场举办的百“团”大战，但是人流很密集很嘈杂很乱。\n[/quote]\n\n今年有幸来到了西交百团的现场，这里我也写点碎碎念来分享吧。\n\n1. 和塬友交流时，了解到学生加社团其实还是比较功利的，这倒也合理：倘若学生不能从社团捞到点好处（如志愿工时或保研加分），那么入社的理由恐怕就只剩热爱了吧\n2. 学校似乎并不重视社团，或者说不把社团当作学生团体看：两个社团挤在一起招新，难免有些寒碜，更何况有些社团人多，展出的东西也多，仅凭赞助商提供的物资，只能勉强摆开\n3. 这个结论确有道理：\n [quote=\"uika_winwing, post:1, topic:14143\"]\n 对于\"参与社团\", 显然随着社团活跃成员的增多，每一个新加入的成员的收获就越多，因此具有**正网络外部性 (positive network externalities)**.\n [/quote]\n 社团活跃成员甚至不必是本校的（但是骨干肯定得是本校的），比如有的协会也聚集了其他学校的同好\n4. 尽管学生进社团招新群的不多，但进来的大多都对社团有一定兴趣（尤其是志愿服务类的，人真多啊），预计转化率不会太低，真正入社的不少（不知塬友是否能证实一下）\n5. 既然横向对比了，那我也来掺点🍉的：总体来说同类型社团的招新群人数，🍉比🦶约 3:1，但🦶的社团交流更注重社团锚定物（比如梧桐口琴社的更喜欢聊口琴），而🍉的则生动诠释了这句话：\n [quote=\"upload_bot, post:1, topic:645\"]\n 社团是大学社交的主要场合\n [/quote]\n 譬如在 xx 社你可以聊 yy 和 zz，甚至还能聊 xx🤣\n\n另外这段话我也觉得很有道理：\n\n[quote=\"upload_bot, post:1, topic:645\"]\n在不影响主线目标的达成的前提下多做点支线任务，多参加一点**感兴趣**的社团，接触**形形色色**的人会对人的全面发展有很大的意义。只有多 exploration 才能多 exploitation。与其死读书不改做题家本性，不如广接物遍尝世间可能性。只有知道人有无数的多样性，才能学会看人，才不会想当然。\n[/quote]\n\n简而言之：人需要社会化。\n\n就写这么多吧，希望高校间的社团能多多合作、共同进步，今年能联系上梧桐口琴社真的是好幸运呢。\n\n---\n\nhttps://xjtu.app/t/topic/6212/5\n\n另外刷到这儿才想起来，好像没看见🦶的 MC 社诶……","cooked":"

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我也好奇每年社团招新宣传为什么没有一个集中各类资源的地方，都在各自的“公众号”上发布。唯一的集中就是在图书馆南广场举办的百“团”大战，但是人流很密集很嘈杂很乱。
\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

今年有幸来到了西交百团的现场，这里我也写点碎碎念来分享吧。

\n
和塬友交流时，了解到学生加社团其实还是比较功利的，这倒也合理：倘若学生不能从社团捞到点好处（如志愿工时或保研加分），那么入社的理由恐怕就只剩热爱了吧
\n
\n
学校似乎并不重视社团，或者说不把社团当作学生团体看：两个社团挤在一起招新，难免有些寒碜，更何况有些社团人多，展出的东西也多，仅凭赞助商提供的物资，只能勉强摆开
\n
\n
这个结论确有道理：
\n
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\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tuika_winwing:\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t
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\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t
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对于\"参与社团\", 显然随着社团活跃成员的增多，每一个新加入的成员的收获就越多，因此具有正网络外部性 (positive network externalities).
\n

\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\n 社团活跃成员甚至不必是本校的（但是骨干肯定得是本校的），比如有的协会也聚集了其他学校的同好\n4. 尽管学生进社团招新群的不多，但进来的大多都对社团有一定兴趣（尤其是志愿服务类的，人真多啊），预计转化率不会太低，真正入社的不少（不知塬友是否能证实一下）\n5. 既然横向对比了，那我也来掺点🍉的：总体来说同类型社团的招新群人数，🍉比🦶约 3:1，但🦶的社团交流更注重社团锚定物（比如梧桐口琴社的更喜欢聊口琴），而🍉的则生动诠释了这句话：\n

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tupload_bot:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

社团是大学社交的主要场合\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n 譬如在 xx 社你可以聊 yy 和 zz，甚至还能聊 xx🤣\n

另外这段话我也觉得很有道理：

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在不影响主线目标的达成的前提下多做点支线任务，多参加一点感兴趣的社团，接触形形色色的人会对人的全面发展有很大的意义。只有多 exploration 才能多 exploitation。与其死读书不改做题家本性，不如广接物遍尝世间可能性。只有知道人有无数的多样性，才能学会看人，才不会想当然。
\n

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简而言之：人需要社会化。

就写这么多吧，希望高校间的社团能多多合作、共同进步，今年能联系上梧桐口琴社真的是好幸运呢。

https://xjtu.app/t/topic/6212/5

另外刷到这儿才想起来，好像没看见🦶的 MC 社诶……

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——發自我的手機

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